Bob Smietana writes for Sojourners Magazine:
Derek Webb wants to dig latrines for Jesus. And he’s looking for a few thousand friends to lend a hand. In a world where as many as 8,000 people die each day from waterborne diseases, he says, it’s the Christian thing to do. To get the word out about his latrine campaign, Webb, a Nashville-based Christian singer-songwriter who doesn’t mince words, is planning to launch a new Web site—www.giveashit.org. The name, he said, is meant to startle people into action.
“The twin towers fall every day in Africa for lack of clean drinking water—7,500 or 8,000 people dying every day and the church does not appear to give a shit,” said Webb, echoing evangelist Tony Campolo’s provocative challenge to churches.
That’s something Webb, who helped found the contemporary Christian band Caedmon’s Call before launching a solo career, is determined to change. And he doesn’t mind offending people in the process, if he can get their attention.
“Part of my job is to take language and redeem it and to use it for good,” says Webb. “This is a great opportunity for me to use language creatively to stir people to action.”
So there you have it. (and yes, we all know that Tony Campolo was semi-famous for doing this 10 years ago)
What do you think? Given what little information we have on the idea to this point, do you have a problem with what Derek’s doing? Attempting to redeem a cuss-word by using it to creatively stir people to action?
Posted by Bryan Allain
This is awesome! Will it work? I don’t know – it might on the fringe. Is there a larger organization behind it? We support Blood:Water Mission. I’ll have to talk to my wife about this being a good parallel.
No, I don’t think it’ll work, because by using the language he’s using he’s actually going to push away the people who NEED to hear it. Those of us who are likely to buy the album, and push the charity aren’t offended – but the general church isn’t going to listen to some “heathen” shooting off his mouth.
And since when is his job to “take language and redeem it”?
I worry about Derek a little. Part of me thinks that he thinks he has a bigger influence than he does – and I think it’s giving him a little bit of an ego with it. I love the guy. I really do. He’s been a big part of my life, but still, I worry.
To put it in a comparision. I’m more likely to get up and do something because of a Rich Mullins album or even Share the Well, not because of they’re “Christian” but because they knew how to “use language” as a way to convey their passion and emotion in a way that everyone understood, not a select few.
I have to agree with Joshua above. I don’t think this will work, and it just seems the wrong way to go about things. I guess I’m less offended by the word, than by Webb’s desire to explain it as being “acceptable”. I think it will do more harm than good, and will drive people away from wanted to donate. All publicity isn’t good publicity when you’re dealing with the “Christian marketplace”. What’s next? “Redeeming” the F word for good? “I want you to f*cking love God with all your heart”? By Webb’s logic, he would just be trying to shock people into seeing the message, but it’s the wrong way to do things, in my opinion.
If your message on its on doesn’t cause people to pay attention, cursing at them probably won’t help.
All of this rhetoric sounds like the same kind of shit they said about Jesus. Give it a chance, and let’s see if it doesn’t shake some people out of a false sense of security bred by adherence to morality and doctrine.
Sorry, Joshua, don’t think that Rich Mullins was understood by everyone. I think that a bunch of so-called “Christian” douchebags co-opted his untimely death for their own purposes in order to sell a ton of CDs, and Michael W. Smith led the charge. The Jesus REcord had little to nothing to do with what Rich stood for, and the fact that what 10,000 churches only know of Rich as the writer of Awesome God is even sadder. I think what Derek is doing is commendable, because we’re fooling ourselves if we get caught up on the use of a word rather than the reason for that word being used. If the church truly gave a shit, then Derek wouldn’t need to do this. Come to think of it, humanitarian and government aid to Africa and the rest of the third world would not be needed if the church did what Christ commanded us, and that would be to, by today’s vernacular, give a shit about the least of these – something that Rich would have advocated as well.
I mentioned this to my wife tonight before dinner. She doesn’t like that sometimes I use words like shit or ass so freely, but even she saw the intended irony and point to the name of the website and cause. Again, this is something worth supporting. And I do think Christians need to get off their pedestals of “righteousness”.
I agree that Rich Mullins wasn’t underwood by many people and even fewer know that he gave up all of life’s luxuries to go into the desert to teach music to native American children for nothing but being a part of their community. The people who did understand Rich got together to do the Jesus record, not to make money, but to honor what is likely Rich’s most important collections of songs. What made it popular over the memory it should have been was Steven Spielberg using “My Redeemer” in the “Prince of Egypt” animated film. If I’m not mistaken, the proceeds of The Jesus Record went to that native American community school that Rich founded, a school for an outcast community, a poor people, the least of our community.
Let’s all give a shit and do the same.
I get it. I get the slogan and It is a good cause to support and I don’t think its always wrong to say shit. But I think the slogan and the website portray perhaps a Derek Webb who has forgotten that, before the entire world, he declared “I repent of parading my liberty”.
“What You Win Them With is What You Win Them To”
- Randy Harris (based on a Google search)
“‘You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.’”
- Matthew 4:10 (ESV)
“What is man’s primary purpose? Man’s primary purpose is to glorify God and to enjoy Him forever.”
- Westminster Shorter Catechism, Question 1
As the church, we are called primarily to worship and glorify God… not to theology, not to fellowship, not to missions. Worship is primary. The others are tools to generate or create worship. With each thing we do, we should ask ourselves, “How does this create worship? And for whom does it create worship?” This must be the litmus test for our church activities, for our family activities, for our careers, and for our art. If the answer is not Jesus and/or God, then we need to reevaluate our approach to the area in question.
I admire Derek’s ambition. However, I believe his new endeavor fails this litmus test. Why? Well, for a number of very significant reasons.
1) The use of cursing wins people to Derek and rebellion, not Jesus. It makes the focus on him, rather than Jesus or the cause. Some will say that Jesus promoted rebellion. NO! If that was the case, Jesus would have led with the sword. Jesus promoted the truth. Ultimately, this stunt draws people away from Jesus and the cause that Derek says he is so desperate to promote.
2) Derek is calling people to a cause and not Jesus. The Gospel of Jesus Christ should always convict us and draw us humbly to him. Derek is calling people out without any mention of his own sin. This is strikingly different that his previous messages and the general message of his former band, Caedmon’s Call. Without Jesus, Derek’s call for us to provide aid to Africa is nothing more than secular humanism.
3) Derek, whether intentional or not, comes across as judgmental and not humble. Some will say that Jesus judged. Sure! He is God and therefore has the authority to judge the Pharisees (please don’t make this an argument about judging). Jesus, instead, pointed them to himself. At the beginning of Matthew 23 (the “woe to you” chapter) is this gem, “Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ. The greatest among you shall be your servant. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.”
I would suggest that Derek could have a bigger impact for the Gospel and the Kingdom of Jesus Christ while aiding people in Africa by doing these 3 things:
1) Promote unity of the body (as he has in the past) and to the worship of Jesus. Ultimately, seeing Jesus in light of our own sin will drive us to his cause. Derek could simply provide an avenue to support Africa on his website and in his shows. If he feels called to a larger ministry, then he could start an organization like Peace Gospel to support local missions in Africa. Contrast “Peace Gospel” with the name that Derek chose for his “ministry”.
2) Promote the Gospel and how God makes good of our failings, rather than pointing out other people’s sin. Aaron Tate is the quintessential example of this. I don’t expect Derek to write songs just like Aaron, but the ideas are there. Contrast the lyrics of this new song (I’m sure they will be posted soon) with “Take to the World” on Derek’s first solo album. “May the bread on your tongue leave a trail of crumbs to lead the hungry back to the place you are from.”
3) Book a flight and go pick up a shovel and serve in Africa. If he feels passionate enough about it, he could move his family to Africa and work to supply mosquito nets and clean water to Africans.
While some may enjoy the shock value of this stunt for awhile, ultimately it fails even if it succeeds. The only lasting efforts, the only ones worth our time and energy, are the ones that point us not to a cause, but to a man, not to action, but to the one who acted on our behalf, not to a hope, but to THE hope, not to clean water, but to the Living Water, not to a chance to save, but to the one who truly saves us all, not to a longer life, but to the life eternal, not to the aid of mankind, but to Jesus, who came from glory to become the Son of man. He alone is our hope and theirs, in this life and the next.
“Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
- Philippians 2:5-11 (ESV)
you’ve all had some very interesting things to share. thanks for contributing to the conversation.
I do want to step in and reiterate one thing though. We really do have very little information at this point about what’s going on. I mean, we know there’s a website and we know there’s latrines that need to be built and we know there’s stuff on the new record that INO couldn’t stand behind. How, exactly, these things are linked is still a bit of a mystery.
Did INO balk at the album because of a cuss word? If so, was Derek using slang for poop in the context of talking about latrines, or was it something else? Seems to me that it might be related to sexuality…or race…or maybe it’s something else.
anyway, my point is that we are doing some speculating because there’s so little info, so don’t chisel your opinions in stone just yet. but again, thanks for sharing them…
Bryan, I also saw those terms (race and sexuality) used on Derek’s twitter yesterday. Seems like the objections to the album may be more than just a single word, but rather the context in which words are used?
I think I’m just tired of having to defend Derek to those friends and family members who I think could benefit from his music. I understand Derek’s motivation in majoring on the majors — I do — but I don’t think this is a productive way of rallying a sleepy church to your cause. I hope I’m wrong.
He also just seems ticked off in general at the church (he seemingly always has an axe to grind), and I know a lot of people who have been turned off by that, because he doesn’t seem to acknowledge the good that *is* happening.
Kelly,
I agree that Derek seems to be ticked off at the church in general, and I have to admit, I am too. We spend millions of dollars at Lifeway purchasing the next Purpose Driven Life, and even lead our entire congregations through inspirational, unifying campaigns that eventually lead to a new family life center or sanctuary because “our church has gotten so big, we have to build a new building with chandeliers and decorative crap and fourteen basketball courts”. Lance has a point above, but if we don’t shed light on sin (our own and others – especially the churchs’ collective sin of apathy towards widows and orphans), then things won’t change. Now I’m sure that I’m going to get responses about the Spirit convicting people of sin, and what rigth do I have to call out someone, but lest we forget – the Spirit of Christ lives within us, and the Apostle Paul lived his life by calling out people in much more offensive and provocative ways.
Matt, that’s the very language I’m talking about. The “we”s that frequent these statements don’t acknowledge the churches that are doing things differently… those that are scaling back, housing themselves in schools and halls and homes so that they can more sacrificially give. Families that go without the latest clothes, cars, gadgets, etc., so that more money can be given to overseas missions.
I’m not spending money at Lifeway, and neither are a lot of my friends. Many of us are going without so that others can live…so we can adopt…so we can give more. Yes, more can always be done. But where is the encouragement, or at least an acknowledgment that there is a new awareness and concern? How about the young generation of Charlotte Christians who were at the invisible children rescue a few weeks back? How about the rising numbers of adoptions amongst young church members?
I just think if that’s your goal — if you’re looking to change the minds of those that *do* shop at Lifeway and build huge churches with fancy chandeliers, leading off with swears is not going to gain you an audience. I know of what I speak…I’m living in the Lifeway stronghold of Charlotte, North Carolina, and there are some church buildings here that would make you vomit.
Paul called out people on getting the Gospel wrong. It doesn’t get much more base than telling the Judaizers to emasculate themselves. I am in Derek’s corner when he majors on the misunderstanding of the Gospel…more power to him. This feels different to me. “Redeeming language” may attract young people to his cause, but it also may give the false impression that just because you’re a Christian doesn’t mean you have to measure your words for the sake of those who are weaker in the faith who listen. There’s a feeling of teenage rebellion around the whole thing, like, “cool! A Christian who swears! Wow! He’s so enlightened and progressive! And all those people who listen and are offended can just suck it up!”. I don’t think that’s God-glorifying in a church context.
But as Bryan wisely reminded us, we don’t know the whole story yet.
Lance, you lost me at “as the church…” While theologically, what you wrote is fairly sound, realistically the Church has failed miserably at what you are writing. And in fact, we are not called primarily to worship, but to love the LORD our God with all our heart, soul, and strength AND love our neighbors as ourselves. Those two actions are exactly equal, not one before the other. One cannot love God without loving neighbor, whom Jesus goes further to describe as the people groups we despise, the outcasts, the imprisoned, the widowed, the poor, the beaten, etc.
No one wants a Jesus from a people who do not have the same interest in their earthly life as they claim to have about their afterlife. The Church has spent much too much energy evangelizing for heaven while turning a blind eye to realities of earth. All this while “worshiping” in swank buildings, serving more food in a fellowship hour than some families have for a week.
So good for Derek for calling us to a cause because the Church’s just calling people to Jesus clearly isn’t solving the real problems. Jesus solved real problems for people and gave them Life. He had compassion in his gut for each of them. We look at the same people at a distance, even in our own communities. That’s a sin of mine that I humbly and openly confess. But I dare not merely speak of Jesus to them until I address their needs. The lack of proselytizing of the Good Samaritan is grossly overlooked.
Tim,
I appreciate your reply. I spent a lot of time thinking about and writing that first response, so I encourage you to revisit it and read it carefully in the light of the purpose of the church, the true church – the body of Christ.
That being said, I understand your sentiment and Derek’s sentiment, so let me try and address some of your arguments and clarify my point. First, I love Derek and believe you both have a good intent. This is not an attempt to bash Derek. This is an attempt to lift high the Gospel and Jesus Christ above the ways and means of men, to remind us all who we worship, know, and serve.
I agree that in many ways the church has failed immeasurably, both in this country and other countries. If the church was doing it’s job, we wouldn’t need many of these “Christian” organizations. On the other hand, if the people who started the organizations put their effort into redeeming the church, the impact might be much larger. But the issue is bigger than just how “the church” supports missions or aid to Africa. For example, how many nights do I spend watching Lost or some other TV show on my flat screen or playing on my iPhone that I could spend serving others? Couldn’t I have spent that money on Kingdom building resources? The root of the problem goes much deeper than you imply. We all fall short. That’s the point of the Gospel. That’s why we need Jesus.
You wrote, “The Church has spent much too much energy evangelizing for heaven while turning a blind eye to realities of earth. All this while ‘worshipping’ in swank buildings, serving more food in a fellowship hour than some families have for a week.” There is a segment of the church that is doing this and I’m not dismissing it. But it’s not the whole church – the body of Christ. Many people give much of their income and lives to missions. Our church, for example, gives 24% of it’s budget to missions. This has come at a sacrifice, delaying us from moving into permanent facility. My brother-in-law is finishing his 2nd year in Cambodia and is raising his family there. His church supports him almost wholly. Still, I don’t believe we should abandon the church, the body of Christ, because it has largely failed in this area. You don’t throw away your car anytime it breaks do you? As Derek has said in the past, we are commanded to love the church and care for her.
Are we called to love God first? Yes, but if we love God, then we will worship him. The theme of the Bible is about Jesus… that he deserves our love and adoration and worship. Worship is the culmination of our love. Worship is why we were created in the first place. Without sin, we would still worship him. Missions and theology will cease to exist, but worship will remain forever. Therefore, serving and knowing God must flow necessarily out of that worship. If you separate God from the serving, then it is nothing more than secular humanism. Similarly if you study God (theology), but don’t know him, then you are merely a scholar. Sure, you may help people or give impressive lectures and gain the respect of others, but without Jesus, it has nothing to do with Christianity.
You wrote, “No one wants a Jesus from a people who do not have the same interest in their earthly life as they claim to have about their afterlife.” Well, I don’t believe we have to shout Jesus at everyone for whom we hold the door open, but the problem is not too much Jesus but too little. The message of Jesus and his disciples was that there is more than just this life… that death is not the end. Do you really think this is not a message of hope for Africans dying of starvation, AIDS, and malaria? If I dig a well or provide mosquito nets and anti-virals to Africans, but fail to tell them about Jesus then all I have done is prolonged this life for them. I have put a tourniquet over a life threatening wound. They will still die. And worse, they now worship either life, or me, or my organization and not Jesus. Do you remember the woman at the well? It is not about the water that will quench your thirst today, in this life. It is about the one who will quench your thirst forever.
Going back to the initial topic, my primary point is that Derek’s use of a curse word to call people to action does not call people to Jesus, but to something else. Therefore, it is no different than James Dobson or the Evangelical-political right using Carrie Prejean (Miss California) to promote a “Biblical marriage”. Both use a tool to accomplish their end in the name of God, but apart from him. Like a blonde in a bikini, Derek has whored himself to a cause and my hope is that my comments in some way will help him see it… so he can “run down the aisle” to the only one who IS worthy of our praise.
“no one is good enough to save himself?
awake my soul tonight to boast nothing else”
- Derek Webb (written by Sandra McCracken)
Kelly, you are really smart. Everyone else here sounds dumb for some reason. I’m sure thats not the case though.
Lance, I apologize for so much time going by before responding. It’s been a crazy week. I agree with much, in theory, of your comments. In the ideal, you are on the mark. The problem I have (not with you personally) is that we can’t live in that idealism. A point of great sadness to me personally is that worship is now a charged and misunderstood concept. Scot McKnight wrote an interesting post about worship becoming nothing more than spiritual eroticism. (http://blog.christianitytoday.com/outofur/archives/2009/05/scot_mcknight_c.html) Sad, but true.
Your pointing out of how much we sit on our tails and watch flat screens, iPods, etc, is a completely true vision of our lack of serving others. But so is a church ONLY giving 24% of their budget to missions. So what if a church doesn’t have a permanent facility? I wish I could find a church that didn’t have to worry about a permanent facility. A church need not be worried about electric bills and mortgages unless that building is being used more for the entire community than just Sundays and Wednesdays and the church office. We have a whole continent of people who don’t even have a home or food for the day. You’re right, we shouldn’t stop supporting the Church, but maybe that should mean support our local church a lot less. But I know that is just as much of an ideal.
In the end, we are called to love God and man. Not either or, but both and. As John writes to us, we deceive ourselves that we know and love God if we show no love to others.
Thank you for your comments – and many thanks to Bryan for hosting this venue of conversation.